Compare Grizzly Bear vs Siberian Tiger

The Play bet 4x preflop, 2x flop, 1x river is heads up poker with the dealer. This is Nekoken 2D animation series vol. Asiatic bears tend to avoid confrontation with tigers, and when they do are usually the ones that turn and run. Including the judges and police. Used most effectively in online poker tournaments, this cheat strategy can be as strong as collusion in some cases.


Mathematics of Poker (Part 1)

The upper weight limit for adult male grizzlies is lbs, while for adult male Siberian tigers is lbs. The grizzly has dense muscle, fat, and skin around its neck and head.

Plus, they are not slow. Watch a video of it swatting something. Seems everyone has their favorite….. If it were a narrow venue such as a cage, then they clash face to face. This is a huge advantage for the bear as they use crushing blow as their primary weapon and a full on hit will crush and part of the tiger it hits.

Before you say the tiger has powerful forelimbs, consider how they use them slashing and grappling attacks. This serves them well in an ambush attack but is inferior to the bears crushing blows face to face. In an open arena the tiger has a much better chance. Its agility and speed give it a better than fair chance of attacking a bear from behind.

In this scenario the bear is in trouble. The tiger has the strength to hold on and deliver a fatal bite to the back of the neck Even if it take multiple attempts to sever the spinal column, the bear will find it hard to dislodge the tiger and pretty much be helpless.

Both are vicious alpha predators with very different fighting styles and I can see either winning. Pretty much depends on which one gets their preferred encounter. As to the tiger, I can see a tiger hunting bears. But I doubt it would choose a face to face encounter. Would a tiger hunt grizzlies? I guess no and yes my guess is as good as yours due to Darwin.

If the two did coexist and clashed, both combatants would likely receive mortal wounds. A bear may be able to initially survive, but the deep slashes inflicted by the tiger would be subject to secondary infection. Likewise a tiger with broken bones from a grizzly attack may not be able to hunt and starve to death. Stretch this out over centuries and you could see the more aggressive of both species dying earlier and being washing out of the genetic pool leaving only the ones smart enough to avoid each other to breed any carry on.

If you truly can not see how either could win then you dont understand both species. Has anyone ever watched the Ali Foreman fight Foreman that big thick have beat Muhammad Ali but brains swiftness and Agility and deadly accuracy will always outsmart the bigger more menacing opponent.

In every recorded fight between a tiger and a grizzly, the bear defeated the big cat. There are recorded events of grizzlies in Russia killing mature male tigers. There are no records of a mature male grizzly ever being killed by a tiger. Toby, I really doubt that, do cite the sources. Circus performances by bears generally include some humiliating clown-type routine, quite unlike the vividly athletic, often aggressively fearsome big cat acts.

Tigers stalk because they can pounce fast. A Siberian tiger who attacked and pounced on a grizzly would soon find out badly it bit off more than it could chew. The bear, after first absorbing everything the tiger could throw at it would then return the favor, over and over again.

The tiger at tthat point will try to get away, but being too tired, is now lunch. Other -wise please visit lndian forest and learn the the unknown truth of tiger….. We have Some historical records on tiger unbelievable grown male Bengal tiger could kill a man from a flying beat over 12 feet. The important thing was ,it happened while an elephant ride. My final point will be, the full growned bangal tiger with 15 years old which is from forest nobody can win.

Because… Some temples had been telling us the tiger god… Even in kung fu why tiger could get main form instead of other beasts like bear and the lion. This is how it would end. Video of both fighting. Best destroys big cat https: People really think a tiger will beat a grizzly bear here? Even worse that so many think that. Go watch a video of two grizzlies fighting.

The bears withstand it for long periods of time. Its teeth are no bigger, its claws smaller, and it lacks the slow twitch torque the bears produce their power from. You people need to go watch a grizzly fight video NOW. The bear would have the edge for the killer blow hate to admit though tigers do kill larger prey than any bear people often forget so either has the means to kill the other. When both fighters are more than strong enough to kill the other getting the first attack is important and that goes to the tiger but the grizzly would be able to hold ground better.

Do not underestimate how powerful the siberian tiger is though, while smaller than the largest bears it is still a big, solid beast. Actually the largest land carnivore is the siberian tiger, as said all bears are ominivores or the case of the panda even herbivores by choice now lol. One lethal blow from Grizzly is enough to put Tiger out of action. For I have indeed — previously posted — in this thread.

James I know, I would be wasting my time explaining you everything. You will ignore everything, just like you did with Rob, but still, the tiger cannot, would not, will not and never win this fight. Although it can put up a good fight with him, more than a lion could do. Just think more logically man, the odds are against the tiger. Bear is far superior in terms of strength, power and size it could outmatch any big cat. Swampy, Sadly, it seems you choose to remain an ignoramus..

If you are not, prove it.. The bear is just too huge for any big cat, pound for pound the big cats are stronger and more talented fighters. Swampy, You simply fail to understand.. Check the real historical records as have been linked, in reality, bears usually lose to the big cats..

One shows a tiger literally KO an Asian buffalo with a neck snap, within a herd.. Another shows a tiger wresting down, by main force, a huge bull-necked gaur.. The grizzly brown bear does not possess the applied skills to do either task.. Finally, you appear to show some realization.. You think lion would dominate every animal on the face of the planet… this, truly is depressing.

And by the way, tiger fanboy! Boy, you need some milk! At least I said a polar bear would win against Siberian tiger. You said lion would beat polar bear! Tiger easily beats lion. If a lion an beat a polar bear, than Kevin Durant is my mom. Polar bear is three times larger than lion lol the lions dead. Yeah, talk trash to me all day. Did you mis-spell your name? Check the actual evidence.. No, ghats not a fact. Ice bears are far stronger, bigger, fatter, to keep the lions teeth and claws from doing anything but sort of hurt it have more stamina, smarter, and with far more powerful deadly paw swipes.

Fat on bears is there to enable them to lie about semi-paralytic, lazing in a den, over winter.. Bears grapple with wrestle each other.. Check the video of the tiger knocking out the water buffalo.. This is a natural fact.. Ok, you want some? A puny captive caged lioness is not a prime pride boss male lion..

Are you kidding me? A black bear cub vs 12 tigers? Black bears sometimes dominate tigers. The other video was unavailable, so you will have to do better than that. It was a bunch of typed stuff. I was going crazy. You want some funny videos? I put up that video — since its about as irrelevant as yours was.. For a coherent overview, see here: That is a completely irrelevant animal, though they are just grizzly bears on kodiak island.

That has nothing to do with this fight. So try to stay on topic boy. Lion pride-boss in his prime — still outbeasts the tiger, though.. I do spit on your trash, since it is such bear-grade stuff..

Buffalo natural kill lions. The fact that you claim a lion will defeat a 3 ton rhino, proves you are insane. You really think nothing can beat lion, can you? We truly are all laughing at you James. I wrote that elephants are natural prey items for lions.. Why do you think that bears do not live in Africa anymore? The hunt is a show, you idiot.

Please, tell me why a lion can kill a tiger. This is the size difference. A killer tiger would destroy a lion in a fight. Even a South Chinese tiger would beat a lion. By the way, here is proof that the tiger is bigger than the lion: The last question is: Which is the biggest big cat? You better get them all right. A liger would destroy a lion in a fight. One being bigger than the other. That mega fat lion is way too fat for combat.

The website also said average African lions are pounds. You say that website was accurate which it was yet hear you are saying lion are bigger than tigers.

Also, that quiz was from National Geographic, which is the best site, no other site is as accurate as it, because they actually film the animals and have discovered that tigers are bigger than lions. The quiz says tigers are bigger, which is made by National Geographic, and unless you have a better source than National Geographic, just shut up.

I know this because my aunt works their. Please, do so present a site better than National Geographic. Rob is not my buddy we are actually arguing right now. The fact is lion can't compete with either tiger or bear.

Tigers and bears are on a whole different level. You got an Aspergers syndrome diagnosis yet? You also know that Nat Geo, which you put so much store in, duly notes that..

The lion is pounds at max. The bear is 1, pounds at max. Tigers on the other hand, use their brains when they fight bear. They have won the majority of fights. Atlas bears became extinct due to over hunting by humans. Btw, Lions do not kill 6 ton bush elephants on one one. They avoid big daddy like the plague. Atlas bears, a form of brownie.. James, how much longer are you going to post bullshit like this?

Lions do not have more stamina than Kodiak or Polar bears. Their paw and bite force are also inferior. They are built for speed and quick kills. Bears have been filmed fighting for hours to exert dominance over a herd. You know this is true. That info can be found on many unbiased websites backed by true scientific research.

Hell, if I wanted too, I could make a website that says an earthworm would beat a rhino. Some idiot out there would believe it too. I keep using conformation bias because it fits you like a shrunken T-Shirt.

Held in awe by Native American Indians, classic characters in folklore, feared, trapped, hunted, displayed in zoos and made to perform in circuses, the bear has long had a complicated relationship with humans.

Considered by many wildlife biologists to be one of the most intelligent land animals of North America,. Zookeepers and animal trainers consider bears to be smarter than dogs. Like humans, bears are omnivores. And bears remember familiar animals for years, recognizing them and identifying their social status from a distance as far as 2, feet away.

To learn survival skills from their mother, cubs spend several years with her. She educates them about what plants are good to eat and where to find them. By the time a juvenile bear leaves its mother, it knows what plant foods are available at each time of the season, and what habitats are likely to have those foods over a very large area. That knowledge serves them well as they move into new areas, learning and remembering where new food sources are found in a new environment.

This knowledge is also critical to finding food when food sources change drastically from year to year depending upon weather and climate. Zookeepers and animal trainers consider the bears intelligence to be greater than dogs. That puts them in the upper percentile of higher primates. They blow lions and tigers out of the water in that category,. James, You continue to dig a deeper hole. I still have more ammo to bury you. Fuck with the bull and you get the horns.

There you have it. Omnivores are smarter than carnivores and herbivores. Looks like another category the feline loses in. You think a male lion alone can beat an elephant! Lions are a whole level lower, maybe at the jaguars level, even a bit lower maybe. How did you write a long comment? By the way, tigers are much smarter than bears. They simply have developed a hunting technique that is just too complicated for bears. Hell, a bear could beat a tiger.

I just think the Siberian tiger has more advantages. Thank you for putting up a good debate, unlike James. I think rob knows that tigers naturally see bears as prey, but prefers trolling.. Are you a scientist? You are the only person here who says that. Yeah, well the Siberian tiger is You really are giving the weakest argument here. If you actually read — what I wrote..

Apart from the jaguar being a scaled down version, of course. You have seen numerous videos showing lions hunting elephants.. I have also posted real wildlife video of male lions hunting.. Actually kid, its pretty funny when even your mentor in trolling, rob..

Fact is, tiger does naturally prey on bear.. Yeah, the jaguar does get beat by lion and tiger. But tiger beats lion. I have listed countless facts why the lion would win. Why do you keep going on about irrelevant stuff, which you just made up? Seems likely, you maybe have mental development deficiencies, like rob, huh kid.. Tiger hunts bear, its a natural fact.. I know tigers hunt bears. I have agreed with you for this fight on this thread. However, the tiger wins against lion.

Looks like you were making stuff up, man. But it does happen. Loo up lion vs tiger national geographic. No, its not there. No, its not there, either, — is it kid..

I see that you, are even more insane then usual. Therefore, I am not listening to a word you say. Are you an idiot or a flamer? I thing that the grizzly has the advantage because the have huge claws and powerful paws they have been known to break the backs of wolves and black Bears with one swipe.

I read a few people mention that tigers are used to hunting prey larger than the grizzly. Do any of you know just how large a full grown moose is? And something like ft tall. You also compare the grizzly apparently on the same scale as the brown bear. The grizzly although a relative to the brown bear is much fiercer and larger.

When you see a brown bear in the woods, you just keep an eye on them. If you see a grizzly in the woods, you keep a gun on him. Seems like a very biased article with no real facts from actual encounters. Back in roman era, exotic beast were pitted against each other for betting and show purpose. They fed mostly on the great herds bufalo, now which are few.

An Alaskan biologist from Montana told me these were the largest of the North American bears, including the Polar Bear. In the Time-Life leather-bound books about the old west, one them stated death matches were held between plains grizzly bears vs lions and tigers for amusement and gambling. The matches were held in either pits or cages. In all cases stated in the book, the plains grizzly won…in less than 60 seconds. The lions and tigers had no chance to stalk or ambush.

It was one on one, face to face, no chance to run. The Plains Grizzlies were like modern day MMA fighters on high protein diets all packed with muscle and fast. James, man you are a feline fanboy; that too a very hardcore one. You are trying to make big cats sound like they are some kind of unbeatable killing machines, which was destined to kill.

Just remember they too have their limits and tendencies, for e. Oh, that idiot is a disgrace to animal research. Man, I thought you were long gone! In fact, there is no need.. You can see for yourself on the wildlife videos, for such a masterly lion is truly..

Big cats are pretty lit, but to think they can take out elephants like James says… B. A tiger wins against both lion and bear. In fact, their is no need either to imagine what a Grizzly bear can do. Certainly such a lardy layer is of negative value in a combat with a true killer..

Plus, any bear that has only ever felt the bite of his own kind — at worst.. The shit one comes across while drinking, the answer is one all over the net there are plenty of cage matches sadly enough where bears are put to fight big cats including tigers. I have read that Siberian tigers prey on brown bears, but of course these are smaller than them not the really large ones. If you really think a tiger would win, I say, search the web for these clips.

For anyone who loves an animal, it is easy to see why people are so passionate on both sides but everything I saw in the unnatural habitat of a cage match showed a bear winning against lions, tigers, and even other bears — oh my.

I aint afraid to post the appropos vid-link.. Fact is, a prime boss big panthera — rips fat-as brownie.. Sorry about that vid-link.. You are the Idiot Tony. I can only hope you gain wisdom as you get older. You really need to open your mind young man. He meant Kodiak bears, as in grizzly bears, which are the same animal dumbass. I still see you two idiots trying to debate facts. I gave up arguing with idiots like you and James. They take you down to their level and beat you with experience.

They are only slightly bigger on average. Siberian tigers hunt, kill and fight off Kamchatka bears. Put that together, idiot. Your sticky dumpster-derived bear crap stinks.. They do not have the same power A brown bear has significantly more swiping force than a S-Tiger. Bears are more fierce and has more weight. If they both stand on their hind legs head on the bear will trample the tiger. BB, Do some research.

Lay off the LSD. A Tigers best chance is when a bear is hibernating or total surprise. Panthera bite is like-wise, that of a true killer-carnivore, not a garbage eater..

Lol a black bear from a southern climate. They are small and weak. Tigers have a far better chance against a huge grizzly or Kodiak than a flea bitten lion. Or — if you do want to learn, then actually review the science, as in relevant published papers, via google scholar, instead. James, wow, does no amount of evidence convince you?

Most written accounts show tigers are greater than lions and I provided yet another source. Flea bitten tick infested lions depend on a pride to survive. They must hunt with numbers because alone they seldom survive for too long. Bears and Tigers do it solo.

Meaning you ignore — most — fact-checked evidence, because the facts — upset your over-valued fantasies.. Its a natural fact kid, learn to accept it. James, every time you insult me or Gary, you have to realize you still are giving no evidence to prove your point. You simply dance around the subject. You just insult me and Gary seven eighths of the time, and the other one eighth, you just states your hopeless opinion.

Sad that my name Jack starts with the same letter as yours. I wish my name was Tony. There you go again. Yeah, I know tiger beats bear. I use reliable sources, not garbage comments which eighty percent of the people are with me on the lion vs tiger thing. All that proves is that bulk idiots abound — on sites like this.

Dude, eighty percent of the people there have common sense! And look at me with a straight face, and say National Geographic is a garbage resource. People like you, are idiots! You think a lion alone will take down a fully grown elephant. Your so stupid, James. You think everyone except for you and a few other fanboys are idiots. Wake up, you stupid idiot!

The useless drivel that he is constantly spouting out is sheer bias. He never stated actual fact and all the links he provides are bogus. Lions have only one advantage and that is a mane to protect them from a neck bite. Otherwise the Tiger has every physical advantage.

Teeth, claws, strength, bite force to that of a Lion. He just needs to get over it. Furthermore you must have struggled in math. Nowhere do I say a Tiger would typically defeat a grizzly or polar bear.

I do however believe all 3 would dispatch a flea bitten lion the majority of the time. Opinions are only as good as the facts which support them, kid. Grizzly bear is an dangerous adversary even for a male Tiger. Thats not quite fair,how about a siberian tiger the largest cat on the earth. But against the largest bear on earth the kodiak brown bear,is all most twice as big and fearsest,as alion or tiger. Brown bear has the advantage unless a lucky kill by the line.

I am not referring to the grizzly bear but the big brown bear in Alaska that can go to pounds and over 11 feet tall. It would not be a contest if they were both alert the bear is packed with dense fat and muscle.

James W, Just like African lion vs Grizzly bear, this fight can go either way. The bear has the strength advantage, while the tiger has the speed and agility advantage. For a human to be packed with dense fat is a bad thing. However, bears are different.

They can hunt large prey like moose and bison. Their bellies are the only parts which are fat. Their back, legs, and arms are muscle. No blackouts, weekends ok, and no resort fees. I think CET and treasure island comps are a couple of the easiest to get from the strip, although mLife seems to be doling out frequent room comps too.

They tend to comp better than most in the area as far as I can tell. Just wish they would put inanother Mississippi Stud table. Tom, I totally agree. Pechanga has treated me fairly well too when I ask for comps. Pala is the absolute worst of the three. I have asked for a buffet twice after playing for 3 to 4 hours, making 10 and 15 dollar ante bets, and both times I was rejected.

I quit asking for food comps at pala…I just go in, play my game and leave. Unbelievable and maddening day at Pala yesterday. I had been playing for a long time in the first spot and had been going through a rough stretch. Table was full except for seat two. I thought about moving several times, but I stayed put. A woman comes up and takes seat two.

Table pauses for a half an hour while they get her paid. I go back in seat three and play for an hour. Table is full except for seat one.

Dealer decides to rearrange the chips, alowing a woman to come up and take spot one. RK, I defenitely feel your pain from that session, except for missing out on the royal flush twice.

I have yet to see a royal flush except for when the dealer dealt one to herself. Lately, I have been sitting in the wrong seat at the wrong time consistently. One of my recent sessions, at a full table, I was the only player to not have a flush or full house when there is 4 to a flush, 2 pair, or trips on the board. This happened about 5 times during the session. I was running so bad, I reduced my betting from 25 ante to 5 ante and moved seats…no change in luck. Sometimes, the best thing for us is to just pick up our chips and take a break.

The Pala dealers except for vgMega drive me nuts, and so do the players. They leave after a few bad beats, then they come back if they see or hear someone winning.

On the other hand, it has some charm as a small, local casino. The dealers at Pala are not great. He had his mind made up that k-3 was better than a-k. Surprisingly he was losing and losing. Oh boy, Your right about Charlie and John. They mean well, but they can come off in a bad way. I wish I could deal that game myself a lot more, but they are set in their ways on who deals what, especially in the Carnival pit. And your right about comps…. BTW, if you guys have any questions about procedure, ask away!

It was a promotion they were running. I asked for a comp a while back and they said they stopped it because players were taking advantage of it. It seems some supervisors were comping for Fiores too much.

Actually got a call from the casino director and had a nice chat. They may brinhg it back with some restrictions. Stephen,If you knew one of the flop cards,would this change basic strategy in Ultimate texas holdem?

Obviously if you knew you would pair up you probably would bet,but say you have k5 or q8 and now since you only have four unknown cards to match yours would you still bet 4x on these hands or other close plays like jt. Went to Pala today…i know…why would i do that? You really should drive past Pala, and go to Casino Pauma. There are self-proclaimed BJ and Craps professional gamblers.

Could one turn pro playing UTH? I am looking for a career after retirement. This may be it. If trips came up I removed that amount from the stack and so on. The suits hung around the table a lot…i mean a lot! I will definitely go back there again! Hi I am confused by the statement and example on the flop. The flop is 3d9dKd. You have no flush or straight draw, so you check. Went back to Spa Resort yesterday and was stuck for 2 buy-ins for most of the session.

I was playing with another player at the table at first and then mostly one on one. The only stipulation with playing two hands is that you have to play one of them blind.

Usual raised eyebrows and smirks at my playing style. A few possible converts. A player was in seat 5 and as I started to sit in seat 4 he moved over. First hand I hit a flush. He got ticked and said I was stupid for not playing trips.

He lost about 2K and kept dropping his trip bet. I made 3 trip bets for the session dealer change card change etc and won 2 of 3. I heard him telling the other players how I count as I left See my post above for explanation. Holy California card craps! I have done the exact same chip tracking you do, but stopped after a few sessions because as i got deeper into my session, the chips migrated into the tracking stack and i had to keep using those chips and it got confusing real fast.

I will probably head to Rincon next friday to play some, although i have not had much luck there recently. I will probably check out Pauma too, on my way home. He left shortly after I sat down. Went to Vegas for the weekend. Very difficult to find UTH tables. There were a lot of WSOP Hold-Em tables, watched for a few minutes and it appeared to be even money payouts on everything saw a full house and a flush while I was watching.

Played one short UTH session at Paris. Not enough light above the tables. One dealer held the cards near his chin hand dealt game and flipped the cards across the table. Twice players had to pick them up off the floor.

Had three hands in a 20 minute period he started to rake my chips and I had put my hand down on top of his to get his attention to point out that my flush beat his two pair. Very bright table games area, lots of loud music for the go-go dancer in the pit. My wife who usually plays blackjack sat in for half an hour and caught quads. They were doing okay to start with but the cards turned ugly and one looked to be near tears after a very long losing streak from where I was at 3-card looked like one lost 8 hands in a row, won 2, then lost 6 more.

Paris has UTH now? PH, Cosmo, Mirage, and Wynn were my favorites as far as atmosphere and energy at the tables and casino. Ballys had one UTH table. Flamingo best for mispaying people…though in my last session they narrowed down the amount of dealers running hte game so it was better.

Was in Vegas this past week. Ann low key and pleasant to play at. Freaking people out with 4x bets on any ace or small pairs, let alone the K, Q and J bets. Had more losing sessions than winning, unfortunately. A couple of starts with 6, 7, 8 losing hands in a row. But ended the trip on an up note, playing my last hands before I had to leave for the airport, I hit back to back full houses playing trips to double my money on the last session.

Just got back from Lake Tahoe and Harrahs has it for 5 min. Had 3 sessions, all winning. Its amazing how people get killed playing the bonus. Of probably 20 or so people I played with, I was the only one using this strategy.

One lady hit quads playing the 10 on the bonus every hand and was broke in an hour. Thanks for the site as I practiced for a week and it paid off in Tahoe. People going broke because of trip bets. Sat down for a session just before it was time to meet my wife. Does anyone have a time limit or goal to win in each session? I started playing 3 months ago and developed a hit and run strategy.

It seems like when I played for hours in a row I would only get up about 12xx avg bet of course not playing trips and using basic strategy. Now I just try to hit and run being hapy with winning x avg bet and moving on to play it at the next casino or just taking a short break and coming back. Also, buy in amounts, based on avg bet? I usually am buying in for 20x avg bet, might be a little light since i have gone through it a few times.

Whats your worst losing streak? I book wins constantly and would like to move up. WHat is your bankroll amount per bet? By bets I assume you are referring to the size of your ante bet. I allot ante bets per session. Right now I play 25 ante and 15 on the trips, so for a session, I cap my losses at …believe me, the swings will take you to the cap if you run into a cold streak. This is a casino game, so walking out even or slightly down is a good thing. This does not happen often though, it is usually up or down a sizeable amount.

Leaving up one ante per hour usually means you had a rough session and just happened to get some back plus a little. So, shoot for one ante per hour and your bothers wins will be even more exciting and your losing sessions will be expected, since it is a casino game. One thing I never do, no matter how much I am winning…I never leave when I am hot. Why do gamblers leave on a hot streak but keep playing and keep playing bigger when they are on a cold streak?

Bankroll management like I use will not make u a winner…it will only let you play the game longer. I am net down since playing this game. I like many others started playing this game and was winning almost effortlessly and thought this game was a money tree…WRONG!

This game can bite you in the ass hard and to play perfect strategy, I believe you need a deep bankroll for the limit you play. Adjust your bet size to your bankroll. I have lost within the first 10 minutes of playing on several occassions. The swings in this game can be brutal and that is part of what makes the game exciting. Play this game for fun, not for expectations of making money. If you want to make money consistently, play real poker. I used to only play real poker, but now I play this all the time because it is more fun, plus the interaction with the players is more exciting…for the most part.

If there are gramatical errors, well, so I suck at grammer…lol. One ante bet per hour? That can not be correct? If its 4 hands then I walk…. Under Promise Over Deliver. If i make one ante per hour great, i walk away a winner. If i make beyond it, then I feel i had a good session. I think everyones goals and expectations of win rates will vary greatly.

Given that it is a casino game, excluding any comps, you are expected to lose money on this game, so breaking even is good. This is an addictive game. Do you think that it might be possible to even beat the casino and gain a small edge if you are allowed to look at the other players cards all the time?

This way you have a lot of info about your outs, especially on the river…. I do not believe seeing the other players cards all the time is enough to beat the house. The problem is that you are always wagering more than you win, excluding bonus hands.

I believe this game will always be a house-edge game, excluding player comps, unless you can see the dealer cards. Some casinos, like Barona, deal the game with all players cards face up, so it must still be house-edge for them to do that.

I have been wondering if team play may add some value to this game though. I have only done this for 3 sessions there, and so far it seems to work ok, except one time i got quads on my second hand which happened to be my first spot hand , which would have been my bigger bet hand if i did not play two hands.

The Spa lets you play the second hand on either side of your actual hand, whereas most other casinos make you play the actual second hand blind. I have played two hands several times at Barona without having to play either one blind. KNowing other cards is very valuable. It may not always be useful per each hand but at times it will help you save a bet or gain a bet. IF you are playing with 5 other people and nobody has a duece and you have two of them, even though the book says not to bet 4x, you now should since you know 10 cards so the odds of hitting your set are much higher….

Anyone know of website that has a list that has UTH? I am curious if any casinos in WV have it? As far as I know on the east coast…. ANyone know anywhere else that has it? Guys, I think you can benefit from seeing other players cards. Especially on the river. You can count the outs that the dealer has. We just have to make more calculations…. Start with , if you win, then , if you win then Then back to regardless of the result of the hand to protect profits.

I was betting it but seldom because I was trying to save chips and was already dejected by my cash game result. Thank you guys for the discussion. I try to tip at the end of a session. The dealer knows if your ahead or behind.

Percentage is up to you. If you are a regular you will see that a toke when you leave even if your losing reflects in the dealers attitude toward you next visit. I am trying to find out what it takes to get a free room playing UTH. Is anyone getting comped rooms at the Wynn, or Caesars.? Feels like M Life has turned very stingy. I have never played at Venetian. I looked for it last January but could not find it there. Vegas still might be feeling the crunch, so comps may still be relatively easy to come by.

I actually find M-life to be comp friendly. I have been getting offers year round from M-life and have only had time to take advantage of it once this year at the Mirage. I had a comp room booked for Bellagio earlier this month, but had to cancel.

Wynn seems to be pretty comp-friendly lately as well. I only played there for maybe an hour tops, while waiting for the Le Reve show, during my last trip. They used to, but too many players are actually playing that bet at a positive EV. I went next door to the Wynn and got the same story.

Having a real bad run of luck. Wife does the same plus slots. Never hear a jackpot on slots announced any more. They have the machines so tight they are embarrassed to announce the few winners.

This is the closest casino to me that has my games so I am stuck. Marketing should be giving MORE comps to keep people coming. At least the staff there are friendly. Still mostly at Pechanga. Saturday I got trips jacks on 3 card then community quads kings then a solo set of quads deuces on UTH.

Wife wanted to hit Pala so was there for a bit on Sunday. Really slows down the play as the dealers try to hit the sweet spot with the dollar chips to light up the red dots. Here is something to think about.. I played 15, hands of UTH on the practice game on this site. I never hit a royal flush. I grouped the results by hands to approximate 9 to 10 hours of play. If There was a winning royal flush, the loss rate would have been -.

There were almost two losing sessions to every win session. I do not know how many hours I played this past trip, but it must have been somewhere around hours in 4days, spread over a dozen or so sessions at several different casinos.

I mostly played quarter ante, sometimes 50, if the cards were running good and the dealer was hitting air. I recovered all the losses on the second day without any huge hands, just good run of cards. Although, I do play 15 on the trips most of the time, unless I am just running really cold. Been dealing the game a bit more now at Pala. Gave out some decent hands and tried giving advice on the preflop bets.

Got a few converts on betting preflop with ace and mid pairs. Anyone going to be in vegas in January? It seems Venetian is rating the game like MGM…2x ante, plus trips. I played at Cosmopolitan this week and the pit told me they rate UTH as 3x ante, plus trips bet, which seems like a much favorable rating. I do not know what is needed to get comp rooms, but I stayed free through a casino marketing offer.

Vegas is hurting, so I feel the casino marketing comps have been getting better for little players like me. I will be staying at Wynn and Harrahs next week for SHOT show and will ask the pit what kind of play is needed for room comps. I can confidently say, I played very little in some of these casinos, prior to getting these free room offers.

Maybe Vegas does the same thing with free room offers. Mike, have you ever played blackjack. I also play hour sessions and go through 3K to 6K session swings, and I am starting to think that BJ may offer a better return and comps. Curious what you and others think. I only play BJ occasionally, usually when I am with friends and we all want to play something together. Oddly, I get scared playing BJ with quarters, but have no problem playing quarters and black chips on the play bet in UTH.

Personally, I think the comps should be better for UTH, and I think for players who play by the strategy get short-changed with the rating system because we raise so often pre-flop, yet that 4 times bet is almost meaningless in the rating system.

Cosmo will at least rate at 3x the ante, plus the trips, so you will always at least get rated as if you called the river on every hand, but other casinos as you have found out only count the initial chips wagered to see the hole cards. On a side note, at what level should a player consider asking for a host? I had cleaned it out prior to playing by eating at Noodles, in Bellagio, prior to that session, so I assume I was at zero express comp dollars at the time I started at MGM.

Was anyone here playing at MGM Grand last night? I was at a table with some serious players…strategy and wagering. I played at Bellagio last month and also tracked my express points. That has been working fine. It was the end table…very hard to see because it does not have the tall signage. Comps are still pretty good IF they know you. Playing mostly Mississipi and UTH. UTH is a slow winning process but I do pretty good by betting the 4 times when i should.

I have been playing the trip bet lately and it seems like it might be a wash. Lost out on some good pays when the cards were coming. I quit BJ as I never know when to up my bet. Is anyone aware of any other They have two tables now; in the far end of the pit closest to the Strip entrance. Not the party pit. Got back from my second 5 days trip to Vegas. Floated the second day and then went on a winning streak thurs and fri. All my bets were quarter ante, except for a handful at 50…one of which being the second straight flush hand.

Trips bets varied from 15 to 25, and sometimes none at all…luckily all my big trips hits had a bet on it. Of all the places I played, I definitely like Cosmo and mirage the best…friendliness of dealers and pit, as well as atmosphere.

Cosmo also has the best rating system for the game…3x ante plus trips. Tropicana has the worst rating…ante plus trips. Everyone else rates it at 2x ante plus trips. I know it is to cover their ass, but it was getting kind of ridiculous.

I wanted to play at bellagio, but they only have one table now and it was constantly full, so I never got the chance. Bellagio has my favorite dealer of all time…a guy named Pierre…funniest dealer I have ever had…unfortunately, he only works graveyard shift now. They were constantly making errors…favoring the house, nonetheless! If you play there, you need to pay attention! So many hands, the dealer raked in players chips thinking they had losing hands, when they really had winning hands.

The dealers were mucking the community cards too before paying trips bets. Super incompetent and rude dealers there. Play at your own risk at PH! You mentioned you play BJ, so thought I might share this with you.. Although, you may already know. While plying at Encore, a lady at my table was telling me I should play the black chip BJ tables there. Apparently, the dealer has to hit soft 17s on those tables.

I forgot if they were single deck or not. You probably already know who has the better BJ games, but I figured I would throw Encore out there since that lady was raving about it. Mike, thanks for the report.

I stopped in at Ballys late Dec. BTW, my observations were identical to what you wrote. I was so annoyed at PH that I cancelled my credit line and asked to be taken off the mailing list. So I am now an M life guy. BTW, Pierre at the Bellagio is funny. I have been telling one of his jokes. It goes like this. On Sunday I go to church and hear the people praying.

On Monday I come to work as a dealer in the Bellagio and I hear people praying. Do you know what the difference is? The people who pray in the casino really mean it. She was hyping it like it was a gold mine though…maybe she was just extremely lucky at that table. At 5x Ante and trips, I would give them the majority of my play…for sure! That would be the best rating i have seen for this game! Now you know why I have given up on CET properties. I mplayed for 4 hours ay Caesars.

OK, I will be back in a few weeks, what type of room can I get on a comp. Answer, none, your avaerage bet is too low. She looked up my play ar Caesars and told me the same thing. I asked what do you need for a room in this place. I am being comped at the Bellagio for less. She said MLiFE takes better care of table players. Guys, I think that is the answer.

First, for those who play trips, I checked a majority of the casinos all over Vegas for Trips payouts had a lot of time to kill. The pit manager told me they changed the tables about 2 months ago. I saw at least one of their two UTH tables open at I did find some 1.

Planet Hollywood, Stratosphere, Orleans, Plaza. Gold coast used to have the 1. The Plaza is the only live dealt UTH 1 table downtown. Both machines have the 3. I did not check the Tropicana to see if they had a machine, which someone earlier thought they might. All the other casinos that I checked, and it was almost all of them on the strip, all of downtown, and all of the Boulder Strip, had the 3. I did not check the far outlying casinos. I play the pre-flop strategy religiously, and the flop and river abbreviated strategy.

I used to play Trips in Detroit 1. I always keep accurate track of what the Trips bet would have done if I played it. I played the ante-blind a little over 3 hours.

Discipline as I watched myself get straights, flushes, 3 full houses, etc. I figured it was a fluke. Next day was the Plaza. It was Tuesday night around 8: The most people at the table including me was 3. Yes, was hitting nice hands again and trying to keep that now enlarged vein on my bald head from bursting. So, I decided that maybe this was just a good all-around week for getting good Trips hands and that I should start playing the Trips Bet, go with the trend.

After all, I brought enough bankroll to allow that. The next evening I went to Orleans since I knew they had the 1. Played for 3 hours including Trips and ended the session regular bets and trips for a total ! I cannot tell you how many times this has happened. After cooling off and having some dinner, I went to the Gold Coast thinking they still had the 1. I seemed to be hitting some decent Trips Bets so I kept playing it…for almost 4 hours.

Besides, I tire of the strip quickly. Decided to play at Stratosphere that evening. I decided I would be playing Trips for the rest of this week today and tomorrow just to keep consistent and not drive myself crazy. It seemed like a giving table, the other player and I were getting a good share of straights, trips, and a full house each. Flushes were nowhere to be seen. A lady sat down who never played UTH before and hit a straight right out the gate, then a few hands later a quad.

She moved on after a couple more hands. The table started to get cold for awhile but I was still sensing probably more like hoping that it was a giving table, maybe it was taking a little break. Even after all these nice hands my Trips Bets were now down around All of the sudden, our table filled up. My trips bets got back up to when out of nowhere…I hit the first straight flush of my UTH playing history! Thank you for sitting down, people! And no, unlike my home casino, the pit managers did not take out all the cards and make sure it was a legit deck etc, etc.

The dealer paid me and had the pit managers double check the payout, and that was it. I played one more hand, which lost, and got the hell out of Dodge! I decided this was it for this trip, I like to go out with a bang. Definitely ahead of the game. Yet even winning a straight flush, and many other Trips bets, I still ended up in the red on the Trips Bets. So sorry, was not reading my scribbled notes too well.

The eighth paragraph showing my results at Orleans were incorrect. Abbreviated expletives to remain! I am going to The Orleans and Gold Coast this week. I played there whenever I was in Vegas, have not seen anyone not playing Trips. That includes something as apparently simple as wiring a new service outlet, for if you don't understand the principles of the system, you are likely to unknowingly create a problem. Just because you know how to do wiring around the house, doesn't mean you know what you're doing on a boat.

That we often get questions of whether AC or DC electrical equipment should be grounded to the boat's bonding system is illustrative of this point. AC and DC grounding systems are two separate systems, for distinctly different reasons.

If you don't understand these systems, you run the distinct risk of creating a disaster. Actually, there are four separate ground systems: You can add to this lightning and HF radio grounds as well. Do you know the principles of each? Are you sufficiently confused to discourage you from doing your own wiring? For unless you understand each thoroughly, you're headed for trouble. The AC ground and grounding systems are "free floating," meaning that they do not ground on the vessel, but only to shore.

The ground, or neutral, is a current carrying conductor, and is the source of many troubles because people do not regard it as such. The grounding, bond or green wire is the "safety" intended to channel current safely to ground in the event of a short circuit. Both of these circuits are capable of conducting current and can be the source of electrolysis when there are system faults with the dock or marina wiring. This is very easy to test for.

There is only one point where the DC side is grounded, and that is at the battery. It, too, is a "free floating" system in which nothing is ever grounded to any metallic part of the vessel, most especially not the bonding system.

Just like a car sitting on rubber tires, completely insulated from earth potential, the battery itself provides the negative potential. The bonding system, also green wire, has nothing to do with electrical systems. Underwater metals are simply wired together to equalize differences in potential of different kinds of metal. Nothing should ever be grounded to the bonding system. Unfortunately, some people don't understand this and use it to ground electrical equipment, occasionally with disastrous results.

Bonding simply means wiring all the boats underwater metals together. This is done because of the galvanism caused by the different metals. By wiring them together, the differing potentials are equalized. In other words, bonding lessens the effect of small amounts of current. On the other hand, it also spreads it around to all underwater metals so that higher currents end up damaging everything. Bonding systems use wire and ordinary crimped ring terminals.

After a while these get wet and corroded. Electricity doesn't flow very well through corroded metal, so your bonding system after a while stops working. To maintain it, simply cut off the old terminals and install new ones. Do you have wires attached to sea cocks with hose clamps? This is putting stainless and copper together, which are galvanically incompatible and it won't work.

What does bottom paint have to do with electrical systems? Nowadays, with copper based paints, a lot. If, the next time your boat is hauled and you see large ugly burn patterns around all your underwater metals, you got a stray current problem. Copper-based bottom paints react severely to stray current, and serves as a great indicator. Sort of litmus paper for electrical problems.

Of course, the common wisdom is that the stray current "is from the marina. Don't bet on it. Most stray current problems are sourced on the boat in which they appear. Otherwise, everybody in the marina would have the same problem. Electrolysis is a word that is badly abused by boaters who don't really know what it means, so let me correct this right now. First, understand that all boats have an electrical potential. That's because of all the different metals on the boat which, themselves have differing electrical potentials.

This is exactly the same principle that makes a dry cell battery generate electricity. This electrical potential is called galvanism and is the reason why we put zincs on boats. Electrolysis is stray current escaping from the system and is most damaging. It is an abnormal condition. When this happens, it will eat up the zincs in no time, usually leaving that metal looking bright and shiny. I spent two years putting a meter on every boat that was hauled for survey. Zincs will erode rapidly and underwater metals begin to be affected.

The single largest cause of problems with shore power systems results from failure to maintain the connectors on both the cord and the boat connectors.

These devices are exposed to water and over time suffer from corrosion and general wear. High resistance caused by corroded, bent or worn connectors results in high resistance which causes overheating, which further amplifies the power drop. This not only creates conditions for a potential fire, but causes electrical equipment to work harder, resulting in reduced life span of equipment.

You can perform a very simple check just by placing your hand on the shore cord near the connection to determine if it is heating up. Obviously, this should be done while you have a lot of equipment turned on. If it's anything but slightly warm, not more than degrees, suspect a problem. Shore power connectors should be dismantled at least once per year, cleaned and repaired as necessary. Most of these connectors have replaceable parts. If you drop your shorepower connector in the water, you must take it apart, clean and dry it.

Otherwise, expect it to burn up. We recommend that you buy only the highest quality power cords, as these will last longer and have the advantage of replaceable connector parts. Cheap connectors usually can't be taken apart. We also advise against ever using the three-pronger household type adapters as this type of connector is highly unreliable and prone to causing system faults and fires. Only the twist-lock type connector is suitable. If you are not turning off the dock breaker before disconnecting the power cord, start doing it now.

Not only do you risk getting electrocuted, but disconnecting an energized connector damages the contacts. Also consider what happens if you drop the energized cord in the drink! Since you have three terminals on a shore connection, wrong polarity can mean that any of these wires are in the wrong position.

Not only should you pay attention to the polarity indicator on your boat, we recommend that you keep a plug in polarity indicator aboard and use it every time you hook up to shore power at a different location. Reverse polarity is not only an electrocution hazard, but can also damage electrical equipment. It is most often found with the three prong spade connectors household type , but occasionally twist lock connectors as well, particularly in marinas with dilapidated equipment.

Never trust the power supply at strange docks, but always check the polarity. When hooking up to strange docks, always check your volt meters to make sure you have adequate voltage. Low voltage is very damaging to electrical equipment.

Turn on the stove or water heater and watch what happens to the meter. Many people think that the circuit breakers on the dock protect their boat. They do not; they only protect the dock wiring.

Your main circuit breaker protects your boat's systems. But what about that section of wiring and connectors between your main panel and the dock breaker?

Well, the fact is that it is unprotected. Check out all the top end boats and you will find that they have circuit protection located directly at the shore connectors. Which is why we recommend that you should too. Having slow blow cartridge fuses installed directly at the connectors can go a long way toward preventing fires and burned up shore cords, particularly if you are a traveler and frequently rely on uncertain power supplies.

Only gasketed, water proof cartridge holders should be used. Circuit breakers wear out, and when they do they work less well, or not at all. It also damages breakers when you shut off equipment via the breaker.

This causes arcing at the contact points which damages the points. When connecting and disconnecting shore power, you should always turn OFF equipment at the appropriate switch on the equipment. Then shut the main breaker off. Do not ever simply throw the main breaker off to shut down equipment that is operating. The circuit breaker arcs and damages it. Also be aware that any equipment run by a motor, such as air conditioning and refrigeration equipment, start up with an initially much higher amperage than the normal running amperage.

An air conditioner that runs at 14 amps may have a start up amperage of 20 amps, so that if you just go and turn all the equipment on at once, it overloads the system.